'Suspicious minds': in search of "al-Lah" ( the Islamic rock star )

I am aware of some of the connections that Christianity has to Paganism

Trust me when I say this (I'm a pagan) European pagan's adopted Christianity between 300 and 400 (AD) and kept some pagan traditions.

The only thing Mohammad's grandfather would notice that had changed, was nakedness was not allowed at the kabba.

other that that, the rituals practiced by the pagan Grandfather who named Mohammad's father are all but indistinguishable from the modern Islamic practice of worship.

only now 'allah' is the only resident in the Kabba. All competing Deity's were destroyed, leaving the Deity worshiped by Mohammad Grandfather (the slave of allah) as master of the house (the kabba)

Prayers (Salat)

Bukhari :: Book 1 :: Volume 8 :: Hadith 365

Narrated Abu Huraira:

On the Day of Nahr (10th of Dhul-Hijja, in the year prior to the last Hajj of the Prophet when Abu Bakr was the leader of the pilgrims in that Hajj) Abu Bakrsentme along with other announcers to Mina to make a public announcement: "No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year and no naked person is allowed to perform the Tawaf around the Ka'ba. Then Allah's Apostle sent 'All to read out the Surat Bara'a (At-Tauba) to the people; so he made the announcement along with us on the day of Nahr in Mina: "No pagan is allowed to perform Hajj after this year and no naked person is allowed to perform the Tawaf around the Ka'ba."

http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/001.008.365.html

Now I can not say for sure, I have no way of knowing about Mohammad's father, he could have worshiped any god he choose. but the grandfather the one who named Mohammad's father (slave of allah) he would have kissed the stone he was named after. (it was the Arab pagan thing to do at the time.)

did Mohammad worship "allah" as did his grandfather ?

did Mohammad kiss a pagan idol ?

did he stop others from worshiping a deity the same way,just like his pagan grandfather did ?

Pilgrimmage (Hajj)

Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 26 :: Hadith 667

Narrated 'Abis bin Rabia:

'Umar came near the Black Stone and kissed it and said "No doubt, I know that you are a stone and can neither benefit anyone nor harm anyone. Had I not seen Allah's Apostle kissing you I would not have kissed you."

He would not have kissed it, because it was a pagan idol, that had been in the Kabba and worshiped long before Mohammad became a prophet.

http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/002.026.667.html

islam "converted" pagans with one major theological change being no longer polytheistic, but monotheistic.

Yes, there were 360 stone idols in the Kabba. 'al-lah' was the Deity of Mohammad's clan. His uncle was in charge of the Kabba, when Mohammad was young. pre-Mohammad the pagan's of the Arabian peninsula went on Hajj, circled the Kabba seven time, ran between the two Mountains and shaved their heads.

the Jews living near him, new that he, or what he preached, had nothing to do with Judaism, they had seen Arabs doing that Hajj or pilgrimage to Mekka for generations. the Kabba was in no way the "house of their lord" Think about that for a minute, if you were a Jew living there and saw this unfold with your eyes what would you do ...Mock him ?

thats what they did, and it cost them their lives.

Merits of the Helpers in Madinah (Ansaar)

Bukhari :: Book 5 :: Volume 58 :: Hadith 172

Narrated 'Aisha:

'Ashura' (i.e. the tenth of Muharram) was a day on which the tribe of Quraish used to fast in the pre-lslamic period of ignorance.

So why would Mohammad do that.

The Prophet also used to fast on this day.

as any good pagan would do,honoring the religion of their forefathers (one of whom was a slave of allah)

So when he migrated to Medina, he fasted on it and ordered (the Muslims) to fast on it. When the fasting of Ramadan was enjoined, it became optional for the people to fast or not to fast on the day of Ashura

http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/005.058.172.html

His uncle was in charge of the Kabba, when Mohammad was young

is incorrect.

it was his Great grandfather (not Mohammad's Uncle) that was in charge of the Kabba.

it was a profitable business, then as it is now.

from the encyclopedia of Islam

ABDULLAH

youngest son of

Abdul Muttalib, husbad of Aminah and father of Muhammad, whose name means Abd (slave or servant) of Allah (God). His name also showed that the name Allah was well-known among the Arabs before the Muhammad. In fact, Muhammad's great grandfather was custodian of the Ka'aba. During Aminah's pregnancy, he went on a merchant trip to Gaza, Palestine and on his return, became ill and died at al-Madinah.

an interesting occurrence can be found here

from the encyclopedia of Islam

ABDULLAH IBN SA`D

is one of Muhammad's secretary.

It is related that, when Muhammad instructed Abdullah to write down the words (Surah xxiii.12-14) "..." Abdullah exclaimed, "And blessed be God, the best of creators"; and Muhammad told him to write that down also. Whereupon Abdullah

Arabia had many Abdullah's (slaves of allah) well before Mohmmad's prophethood.

boasted that he had been inspired with a sentence which the Prophet had acknowledged to be part of the Qur'an. It is of him that is written in the Qur'an, Surah vi.93, "..." (Hughes's Dictionary, p.2)

This incident of course casts doubt on the inspiration of the Qur'an, that if Muhammad should add to the words given.

Pilgrimmage (Hajj)

Bukhari :: Book 2 :: Volume 26 :: Hadith 710

Narrated 'Asim:

I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance,

You would assume that Mohammad would do away with such things as they were from the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, and were therefore pagan practices, directed to false gods,really not related with monotheism.

till Allah revealed: 'Verily!

Oh no, go right ahead

(The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158)

this most be some of the things Jews, and christian, "corrupted "from the Bible (LOL) Because all prophets preached Islam ?

http://www.quranexplorer.com/Hadith/English/Hadith/bukhari/002.026.710.html

More than a month after their arrest, they remain in Jeddah’s Briman prison. One of the prisoners spoke to International Christian Concern (ICC), the nondenominational human-rights group that first broke the story about the arrest: “A high-ranking security official insulted us, saying, ‘You are non-believers and animals.’

any one, not recognizing and worshiping that little black stone as a deity, striving to touch it, or kiss it, is a non-beliver.

Christians on the other hand keep to a concept of G*d as described by Jesus, who was a monotheistic Jew.

He also said, ‘You are pro-Jews and supporters of America.’ We then responded, ‘We love everyone. Our God tells us to love everyone.’”

The god, deity, or object of worship recognized in Saudi Arabia does not. This most be clear to every thinking human on the planet earth.

On February 7, Saudi officials ushered a Muslim preacher into their jail cell. A woman prisoner described what happened in a phone interview with ICC: “The Muslim preacher vilified Christianity,

Christian worship the wrong G*d.

denigrated the Bible,

It not the "book of allah" and Mohammad.

and told us that Islam is the only true religion.

and allah the only "real" god ? (LOL)

The preacher told us to convert to Islam.

worship allah

When the preacher asked us, we didn’t deny our Christian faith. I was so offended with her false teachings that I left the meeting.”

Of Saudi Arabia’s 6 or 7 million foreign workers, 1 million or more are Christians. Some of them have resided there for 30 years, but they are prohibited from having churches.

Churches would offend the sensibilities of the deity housed in the Kabba, and 'allah' angers easily.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/290616/persecuted-praying-god-saudi-arabia-nina-shea

The Pagan Arabs could plainly see what was going on.Out of all the hundreds of idols in the Kabba,only one was going to surive.

What gave Mohammad the right to do something like that. Well a man has no such right to do things like that. So allah revealed this little ditty. (quran 21:58)

Allah (mohammad) claimed all prophets preach Islam right ? So Mohammad, took a biblical story and perverted it, to suit his own nefarious ends

I remember vaguely something like that in the bible,but I'm pretty sure Abraham never worshiped an idol, and never told the Jewish people to do such a thing. If anybody knows what part of the bible that's in, I would like a link if you can.

Had Abraham done so, Judaism would not be presently like it is, or historically as it was.

And then he broke those [idols] to pieces, [all] save the biggest of them, so that they might [be able to] turn to it.

Turn to the one (allah), and acknowledge an idol as a deity ?

http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/21/58/

And Goes, if you come back, could you tell me how you read that in Arabic

It means he destroyed all of them except for their greater

But that's not true. there is still one stone idol left in the Kabba, isn't there ?

The Prophet, after confirming all the reports of the attack and subsequent events, marched to Makkah with an army consisting of three thousand Muslims of Medinah and Muslims from other Arab communities that joined him on the way totaling ten thousand Muslims. Before entering the city he sent word to citizens of Makkah that anyone who remained in his home, or in Abu Sufyan’s home, or in the Ka’bah would be safe.

The army entered Makkah without fighting and the Prophet went directly to the Ka’bah.

He magnified Allah

who at this time is a rock, in the Kabba

for the triumphant entry in the Holy city. The Prophet pointed at each idol with a stick he had in his hand and said, "Truth has come and Falsehood will neither start nor will it reappear" [Qur'an 17:81]. And one by one the idols fell down. The Ka’bah was then cleansed by the removal of all three hundred sixty idols,

359, one remains, what was it called the day before Mohammad entered Mekka ?

and it was restored to its pristine status for the worship of One True God (as built by Prophets Ibrahim and Ismail).

I read that Mohammad destroyed all the pagan symbols of idolatry, but one remains ?

Doesn't it ?

http://www.cyberistan.org/islamic/muhammad.html

If you are referring to the Blackstone,

yes

somehow it is is not an idle in the eyes of Muslims.

But it surely was to the pagan Arabs. Mohammad's grandfather named his son after it.

It is the exact same stone, all it did was go from being the "deity" of Mohammad's tribe to the "lord" of the world and everybody in it. According to Islamic tradition

If you destroy all pagan idols but one, and elevate that stone idol, to the status of supreme being and creator of the universe. Haven't all you did, was just made a formally pagan idol, a "real" G*d ?.

And could that god (idol), not still be a pagan god ,only with a much better publicist. or propagandist's willing to use violence to make others "submit" to a common misconception or the delusion, beneficial to a new ideology ?

And that ideology, is making others submit to the idea that a stone fell from heaven, was a pagan idol for centuries, was mistakenly worshiped by pagans, but was really nothing at all.

If so, why would it still have a prominent place in the house of allah ?

Why would modern Muslims preform the same ritualised practice's as their pagan ancestors did before "allah" told Mohammad, he was really god ? and to reject idolatry

Why would a reall G*d, want to be worshiped in the exact same manner as a pagan idol was ?

That's just crazy @!$%# ! (LOL)

brainwashed to the degree that they are not able to see your logic in this issue

I am trying to sort out the misconceptions.

However, they were still weary about bringing down the Ka`bah. Al-Walid bin Al-Mughirah said, `I will start to bring it down.' He held an ax and stood by the Ka`bah and said, `O Allah!

The Kabba is the house of the Pagan Deitys or gods , and here the greater one, it's called "allah" in this instance. it's "Akbar" or greater than the other idols.

No harm is meant. O Allah! We only seek to do a good service.'

At this particular time in history, Mohammad is not yet the prophet of Islam, he and everybody else living in Mekka are pagans, who only know of pagan gods. There has yet to have been a "revelation" claimed by Mohammad, it will not come for another five years. And we see, Al-Walid bin Al-Mughirah, begging 'allah's' forgiveness, because he is about to strike the house of 'allah' with an ax, and does not want to anger 'allah', who at this time, is a pagan deity. The Kabba is still now, the house of 'allah', and the black stone is still residing there.

He then started to chop the House's stones. The people waited that night and said, `We will wait and see. If something strikes him, we will not bring it down and instead rebuid it the way it was.

If nothing happens to him, then Allah will have agreed to what we are doing.'

'allah' is the "top stone" the big dog, head honcho, main man," Allah is "Akbar" or Greater than, the other idols

we find no mention of the other 359 idols housed within the walls of the Kabba.

The next morning, Al-Walid went to work on the Ka`bah, and the people started bringing the Ka`bah down with him. When they reached the foundations that Ibrahim built, they uncovered green stones that were above each other, just like a pile of spears.''IbnIshaq then said that some people told him, "A man from Quraysh, who was helping rebuild the Ka`bah, placed the shovel between two of these stones to pull them up; when one of the stones was moved, all of Makkah shook, so they did not dig up these stones.''

http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=305 (click next to turn the page)

IbnIshaq said, "The tribes of Quraysh collected stones to rebuild the House, each tribe collecting on their own. They started rebuilding it, until the rebuilding of the Ka`bah reached the point where the Black Stone was to be placed in its designated site.

The corner of the Kabba (where it can be found today)

A dispute erupted between the various tribes of Quraysh, each seeking the honor of placing the Black Stone for their own tribe.

Mohammad, is from a clan of the Quraysh tribe, the highest deity of the tribe is clearly a black stone.This black stone is a pagan Deity.

The dispute almost led to violence between the leaders of Quraysh in the area of the Sacred House. Banu`Abd Ad-Dar and Banu`Adi bin Ka`b bin Lu'ay, gave their mutual pledge to fight until death.

fighting to the death over the honor (supremacy ) of a black stone, is still on going in the contemporary world today. Open a newspaper.

However, five or four days later, Abu Umayyah bin Al-Mughirah bin `Abdullah bin `Amr bin Makhzum, the oldest man from Quraysh then intervened at the right moment. AbuUmayyah suggested that Quraysh should appoint the first man to enter the House from its entrance to be a mediator between them. They agreed.

The Messenger - Muhammad - was the first person to enter the House. When the various leaders of Quraysh realized who the first one was, they all proclaimed, `This is Al-Amin (the Honest one). We all accept him; This is Muhammad.' When the Prophet reached the area where the leaders were gathering and they informed him about their dispute, he asked them to bring a garment and place it on the ground. He placed the Black Stone on it.

Mohammad shows great reverence to the stone, and treats it with respect, the black stone is an object of worship. It most have been a great honor to be "in-trusted" with the placement of his family's scared idol. The black stone was the most revered object of worship at this time and place. Mekka, 5 years before Mohammad became a prophet.

He then requested that each of the leaders of Quraysh hold the garment from one side and all participate in lifting the Black Stone, moving it to its designated area. Next, the Prophet carried the Black Stone by himself and placed it in its designated position and built around it. The Quraysh used to call the Messenger of Allah `Al-Amin' even before the revelation came to him.''

Al-Amin. trustworthy in Arabic, Mohammad was "in trusted" with the well being of the black stone, making sure no harm came to it. He was certainly the man for the job, as now the black stone is still the main (only) attraction in the Kabba, the "lowly" tribal deity of the Quraysh tribe, is now what Mohammad wanted, it's the only idol worshiped in the Kabba. The "jinn" of his pagan father most have been so proud, after all, his name was slave of allah (Abdullah)

The undeniable truth we find in this fafsir, is that in Mekka, before the "real god" revealed itself. The Kabba was the home of many idols, but there was one idol ( the black stone) considered by the Mekkian pagans as, Greater, than the other idols (allah-Akbar) "allah" was Greater, and is now still, Greater.

Mohammad: the prophet of "reformed" Arabian paganism

A poet's work is to name the unnameable, to point at frauds, to take sides, start arguments, shape the world, and stop it going to sleep.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/s/salman_rushdie.html

A poet's work is to name the unnameable,

allah was a rock, and is still a rock

to point at frauds,

see allah rock

to take sides,

the black stone of the kabba is allah...allah is a rock

start arguments,

see above

shape the world,

one questioning mind at a time

and stop it going to sleep.

.this is from an Islamic chat room

The Mushrik

pagans

did believe in Allah and invoke him in time of difficulies

“And when a wave covers them like shades (i.e. like clouds or the mountains of seawater), they invoke Allah, making their invocations for Him only. But when He brings them safe to land, there are among them those that stop in the middle, between (Belief and disbelief). But none denies Our Signs except every perfidious ungrateful”. ( 32:31)

They

the pagan Arabs

believed Allah was the only creator, Razaq, Mudabir

“Say "In Whose Hand is the sovereignty of everything (i.e. treasures of each and everything)? And He protects (all), while against Whom there is no protector, (i.e. if Allah saves anyone none can punish or harm him, and if Allah punishes or harms anyone none can save him), if you know."

“They will say: "(All that belongs) to Allah." Say: "How then are you deceived and turn away from the truth?" ( 88-89: 23)

“And if you ask them who created them, they will surely say: "Allah". How then are they turned away (from the worship of Allah, Who created them)?” ( 87 : 43)

So their shirk was that they were taking idols from saints, stones and others and invoke them, when they were in difficulty they only invoked Allah, then made shirk and invoked some intercessors

Who can deny that Abu Jahl was invoking Allah to decide in Badr that the false one might be killed, and he was killed.

So Mushrik belived in Allah has the all mighty, and they belived he has given powers to others.

What is the bralwi answer ?

Do you deny Lat was a saint ?

satanic verses

Do you deny that Suwaa, nasr and othetrs where saints ?

Do you deny that Mushrik were taking idols ase intremediate to get close to Allah, but where believing that Allah is the only Cretor and the all Mighty

May Allah make us undertsand Tawhid

http://www.yanabi.com/index.php?/topic/5714-hadith-about-graves-and-origin-of-lat-suwwa-yaghuth-nasr/

So absurd it's beyond ridiculous.

Yes,and so is this.

This is from a site pantheon, that just list gods, goddess,and myths from history.

Al-Uzza

The youngest of the three daughters of the pre-Islamic Allah and the patron goddess of Mecca. She is identified with Venus as the morning star and her name means "the mighty one". She resides in a tree similar to the acacia.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/u/uzza.html

Manat

The ancient Arabian goddess of fate and destiny, and the personification of the evening star. Manat ("fate") is one of the daughters of the pre-Islamic Allah. Her cult was situated between Medina and Mecca, where she was worshipped in the form of a black stone.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/m/manat.html

a-llat

An ancient mother and fertility goddess of the pre-Islamic Arabs. Her name means "the Goddess". This mythic figure of great antiquity is one (she represented the earth and its fruits) of the trinity of desert goddesses named in the Qur'an; Al-Uzza (goddess of the morning star) and Menat (goddess of fate and time) being the others.

http://www.pantheon.org/articles/a/allat.html