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KPR37

Lan Astaslem ( لن استسلم‎ ) ‎ never submit
Articles Posted: 36  Links Seeded: 2911
Member Since: 6/2008  Last Seen: 5/17/2012

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A post modern look at legitimacy or illegitimacy: Regarding a nation state, Turkey "Question" and answer ?

Tue Dec 6, 2011 12:46 AM EST
education, turkey, slavery, slaves, devshirme, turkic-janissary
By kpr37
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The history of the "Turkic " peoples can be traced to a starting point, and it has little, if anything, to do with the modern nation state of "Turkey". (in a broad sense)

So here ,in the section when I say "Turkic", it's not in reference to the modern nation state of Turkey, or it's present day inhabitants,it is only in reference to the ethnic, and linguistic origins of the Turkic peoples.

 

The term Turkic represents a broad ethno-linguistic group of people including existing societies such as the Turkish, Azerbaijani, Chuvashes, Kazakhs, Tatars, Kyrgyzs, Turkmen, Uyghur, Uzbeks, Bashkirs, Qashqai, Gagauzs, Yakuts, Crimean Karaites, Krymchaks, Karakalpaks, Karachays, Nogais and as well as past civilizations such as the Kumans, Kipchaks, Avars, Bulgars, Turgeshes, Seljuks, Khazars, OttomanTurks, Mamluks, Timurids, and possibly the Xiongnu and Huns.[8][9][10]

I will attempt to trace the Turkic peoples trajectory from the Russian steppe, to empire, to present day nation-state.The Turkic peoples, created many empires.Some well known and others not so well known ,produced military leaders of great renowned. Ginghis Khan,Tamerlane and were known for their contribution to the advancement of military and administrative skills, recognised still to this day.The Chinese feared the Turkic speakers to their north, to such a degree that they built a "Great wall" to provide security. At this point in time they were a war like people,who prospered by looting and pillage,not at all uncommon in the ancient world,as this was a common and widespread practice, and can not be held against them.This was a cultural practice with out a religious component.At this point in time the faith" or religions of the group of people known as Turkic was Tengriism.

It was the common language,and beliefs that united the different ethnic groups, under the encompassing term "Turkic". Hence, Mongols , such as Ginghis Khan, falls into the "Turkic" peoples descriptive . How has so much history been forgotten,it was not misplaced.

And why did such a widely diverse groupings of humans, unite in such a way as to come to dominate over much of the known world by the close of the fifteenth century.And fall to pieces,at the dawn of the twenyth century.

 

Just as I started in central Asia as a starting point (as origin of the Turkic peoples) I go still further, to find the cause of this. The rise and fall of the "Turkic" empire, or as it is commonly called, the Ottoman empire.

 

In Arabia, in the seventh century, arose a 'prophet' named Mohammad,who was quite insistent on the submission of those who believed his words, and even more so insistent, on the humans who did not  submit to his personal concept of a G*d, as well . He commanded submission of all humans, to the will of G*d. Or a concept of a G*d, as explained exclusively by him.

One of the first groups of humans to encounter this forced submission, were the 'pagan' Arabs living in Mekka.They worshiped many stone idols, in a square building known as the Kaaba,the most famous of which was "allah". The black stone of the Kaaba. (a meteorite)

 

The 'pagan' Arabs who submitted became Muslims,those who did not, were dead pagan Arabs. It's all a rather simple method of control.

Submission,to a more powerful man, or tribe is as old as Mankind. It had never been a religion component in that particular part of the world. However,Islam is the Arabic word for submission.Islam is the religion of SUBMISSION.

 

Cave men had been forcing weaker cave men, to submit to their will, since the dawn of time.It was never " I found the dead woolly Mammoth,it's mine". No, you were forced to make others submit to your will, to keep possession of the dead animal. Stronger individuals or a grouping,could take possession,force you ( the discoverer of the carcase ) to submit to their will.

The American "Indians" were forced to submit to the will of newly arrived Europeans.The English and French have historically attempted to force the "other" nation to submit to their will. Germany attempted to force all the world to submit to it's unique" ideology (national socialism) in the 1940s.In central America a native tribe had submitted some weaker tribes to such a degree that human sacrifice,was the price paid to priests, wearing the freshly removed skins of the submitted. When ever, and where ever in history, such submission is called for it is always a bloody price paid to remove it.

 

History teaches many lessons of killing for control of land or possessions,he (Mohammad) however added a new element,thought control.

 

The actions were now divinely ordained ( not to be questioned), not only was robbery and enslavement a profitable enterprise,they were the will, and reward on earth for submitting to allah.(or the thoughts, and concepts,of Mohammad's will to establish Arab cultural supremacy)The language of the Bedouin Arabs as the Language of the supreme being, cultural things such as the razzia, of Arab cultural tradition became Jihad.

This transformation of the nomadic razzia has wider implications than are apparent from the English translations used. The word translated "strive" is jahada, and the corresponding verbal noun is jihador "striving" which came in the course of time to have the technical meaning of "holy war." The change from the razzia to the jihad may seem to be no more than a change of name, the giving of an aura of religion to what was essentially the same activity. Yet this is not so. There was a change in the activity which came to be of the utmost importance as time went on. A razzia was the action of a tribe against another tribe. Even if two tribes were very friendly, their friendship might cool, and in a few years a razzia might be possible. Jihad, however, was the action of a religious community against non-members of the community, and the community was expanding. If members of the pagan tribes raided by the Muslims professed Islam, they at once became exempt from further Muslim raids. Consequently, as the Islamic community grew, the raiding propensities of the Muslims had to be directed ever further outwards. It was this "religious" character of the jihad which channelled the energies of the Arabs in such a way that in less than a century they had created an empire which stretched from the Atlantic and the Pyrenees in the West to the Oxus and the Punjab in the East. It seems certain that without the conception of the jihad that expansion would not have happened. (emphasis added)

 

The 'pagans' of the Arabian peninsula, were given a choice. Submit or die, as were the Jews of the inner parts of Arabia,the Jews of Medina.This was not the only group who were told to submit,Mohammad sent letters to the neighbouring kings or rulers expressing his personal desire that they submit to his will. One such letter can be found here. This is the justification for the conquest of the Byzantine empire.What is now ( or large parts of), the modern Nation state of Turkey.But how does this effect a group of peoples from central Asia, I will continue. Sorry,but history takes a little while to become clear.

 

After the death of this 'prophet' the first rightly guided caliph, Abu Bakr Siddique, following the instructions of his prophet, faught the Byzantine army at Damascus in 635 and won, but did not defeat the empire. This Empire (Byzantine) still existed for the "Turkic' peoples to conquer. Because there were many wars to be fought ,and the best General or fighter was needed for the weakened Sassanid empire.The conquest was temporarily put off.

So, Khalid ibn al-Walid  (or the sword of allah) set out on a most violent mission to force the Zoroastrians of Persia to submit to this concept of a Deity. (still, and to this day, the black stone of the pagan Arabs is an object of worship in the kaaba.) in 641-42 they defeated the Sassanid army at  Nahavand. On hearing of the Muslim advance, Yazdgard ( the king of Sassanid Persia) left for Balkh. Insignificant resistance was offered at Merv,and the Muslims soon occupied the Capitol of Ctesiphon (which they renamed Madain- Iraq) without the need to lift their swords.This was the fall of a humane,muti-cultural ,long standing civilization.

 

Yazdgerd proceeded to Nahavand after Jelola war. He called up all the commanders and the ethnic leaders to assist him and all troops gathered in Nahavand under command of Firoozan. Their number is reported as 150 thousands. On the other hand, Omar, the then caliph sent Neman-ibn-e-Abi Moghren Mazani to Nahavand.

The Islamic army is reported to have been 30,000 only. Neman-ibn-e-Abi Moghren Mazani was killed in this war which was known as Fath-ol-Fotooh (The biggest victory). His tomb is located in this very same region known as Babapireh and is today a public shrine. The Iranian (Persian)army was defeated which resulted in rupture of The Sassanides dynasty.

 

And it is after this conquest, that the Turkic peoples encounter Islam ( as victim), and the ethnic bigotry in the massage of Mohammad.

 

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Turks; people with small eyes, red faces, and flat noses. Their faces will look like shields coated with leather. The Hour will not be established till you fight with people whose shoes are made of hair."

 

A condensed time line can be found here to check my historical accuracy to this point

 

630: the eastern Turkic Khaganate is conquered by China

632: the Muslims conquer the Arabian peninsula

632: Muhammad delivers his last sermon on Mount Arafat

632: Mohammed dies

632: the Shiites, or Partisans of Ali, claim that Ali should succeed Mohammed based on blood relation, but the council of the elderly (Sunnites) choses instead Abu Bakr

632: Abu Bakr, one of Mohammed's followers and the first Muslim caliph ("prophet's successor"), quells upheavals throughout Arabia and declares war on the Roman (Byzantine) and Persian (Sassanid) empires

633: Abu Bakr conquers southern Mesopotamia
634: Abu Bakr defeats Byzantium in Palestine
634: Abu Bakr is succeeded by Umar ibn Abn Khattab
636: the Arabs capture Jerusalem
636: the Arabs capture Seleucia-Ctesiphon and the Sassanid empire

Since this is about the Turkic people, I will move my time line along, to the rise of the Persian Islamic empire.(Safavids)

Who by this time, had submitted the Arabs using the Ideology of submission (Islam), better than the Arabs who invented this ideology and codified it  in the Quran and hadith.But as is most always the case,with any ideology of submission, a crueler or smarter group of individuals may turnaround this ideology, as a weapon against the group who originally introduced it.Submitting them,as was the case here.

 

This is when and where, the descendants of the Mongols the "turkic" hoards of the past, make a roaring comeback from the pages of time, Submitting both Persian, and Arabs at one time or another,and for centuries to come. The rise of the Ottoman Empire. (time line)

 

830-850, Turkish mercenaries from Central Asia found in service of Abbasid caliphs

850-905, Tulunids (Turkish generals) rule Egypt virtually independently of the Abbasids

900, Samanids rule in eastern Persia and borderlands of Turkistan; Turks are exposed to Persianate Islamic culture; preparation far incorporation of Turks into main body of Middle Eastern Islamic civilization

10thc. , term ”sultan” (Arabic abstract noun meaning ”sovereign authority”) begins to be used to designate rulers

c.1000 , Ghaznavids establish rule in Afghanistan, break Samanidpower, and expand into Persia below Oxus River; champions of Sunni Islam within a predominantly Persian cultural context

1040, Seljuks take Khorasan from Ghaznavids; soon controlmostof Persia with center at Isfahan; from there advance to defeat Buwayhids (Shi’i Persians) who had dominated Abbasid caliphs in Baghdad for a century

1055, Seljuk sultans become de facto rulers in Abbasid Baghdad; two centuries of turmoil is ended and unity restored in eastern Islamic region; Persia and Mesopotamia are reunited and northern Syria added to the ”Great Seljuk” state

1071 , Battle of Manzikert ( Malazgirt ) a decisive victory for Seljuk Sultan Alp Arslan over Byzantines; break Byzantine line of defense in Eastern Anatolia; Turkish-speaking Muslims raid and settle in area now known as ”Turkey”; much of the Greek/ Christian veneer of indigenous Anatolian population gradually replaced by a Turkish/Muslim veneer

1092 , death of Seljuk Sultan Malik Shah and his great vizier, Nizam al-Mulk; dynastic strife ensues

1118, Seljuk Empire splits into principalities ruled by princes of the family, often over- shadowed by their ”atabeys” ( tutor guardians )

12thc. , Seljuks of Rum ( Konya, Anatolia ) rule centra1 Anatolian plateau with center at Konya (Iconium) .

1204 , Byzantium fatally weakened by 4th. Crusade and Latin occupation

c.1200 , high point of Seljuks of Rum; by absorption of smaller Turkish principalities (beyliks), Seljuks extend their jurisdiction to south coast of Anatolia; Turkish nomads (”gazis”) active in western border/march region adjacent to Byzantium

1243,Mongols under Hulagu Khan move west, defeat Selcuk Sultan Kaykhusrav II, and establish overlordship in Seljuk Anatolia

1258, Mongols conquer Baghdad and bring Abbasid Caliphate to an end

Later 13thc., Turkish Anatolia fragmented as Mongol control weakens and is withdrawn; many small principalities ( beyliks ) emerge, one of them led by Osman (Turkish form of the Arabic/Muslim name, Uthmm; European corruption of Osman is Ottoman) in northwest Anatolia (around Iznik and Bursa) adjacent to Byzantine territories.

1071-1300, Anatolia witnesses swift military penetration, ragged political conquest, partialand superficial cultural/linguistic conquest by Muslim Turks who, in their upper ranks were carriers of PersianateMuslim culture. That group was small in number but powerful . Below them, Turkish-speaking Muslims mix withindigenous population. Folk culture and folk religion often at odds with high culture and Islamic orthodoxy represented by the religious and political elite in the society.

Assembled by Richard L. Chambers,
The University of Chicago

 

And it has taken all of this time, and reading to bring us to the time of the founding of the Nation state of Turkey,but we are not fully there yet. The "turkic" people at this time, are far removed from the encounter with the Chinese and the construction of the great wall.

It is here that the Ottoman "Turks" encounter another wall,not as long,but better constructed,and with the same goal as the the wall in China, KEEP THE KILLERS OUT. I speak of course of the walls surrounding the  by now,"city" state of Constantinople.

Founded 650 years before the birth of Christ.for over 2,000 years they had a poor history of Submission.This was not going to be a walk in the park.The first serious  attempt at taking the city was by Arabs in 717.

The Second Arab Siege of Constantinople (717–718) was a combined land and sea effort by the Arabs to take the capital city of the Byzantine Empire, Constantinople.

 

The eventual fall of the city did not happen until 1453. There was no petition to the united nations, there was no "peace now" origination, there were only men not willing to submit, and men willing to die,to force said submission.Hundreds of years it took for this game of submission to be played out.

But that's not fully accurate, I am leaving something out.The men were not really willing to die to force said submission, they preferred the "other" to do the dying.A great concept to avoid dying for your cause, is to force another human to do the dying for you, a slave or fully submitted person, without the right to object. A Janissary .A new class of less than human.

 

Janissary,also spelled Janizary, Turkish Yeniçeri, (New Soldier, or Troop), member of an elite corps in the standing army of the Ottoman Empirefrom the late 14th century to 1826. Highly respected for their military prowess in the 15th and 16th centuries, the Janissaries became a powerful political force within the Ottoman state. The Janissarycorpswasoriginally staffed by Christian youths from the Balkan provinces who were converted to Islām on being drafted into the Ottoman service. Subject to strict rules, including celibacy, they were organized into three unequal divisions (cemaat, bölükhalkı, segban) and commanded by an ağā.

Drafted,what a wonderful term,Americans were drafted in to the Army,yet they did not need to remain celibate, or change their faith,is there more to this ? I hate to say this, but it does sound a lot like slavery. Lets see if there is a less politically correct source for this "devshirme" system

 

‘The renowned king… entering into consultation with his ministers of State, the result hereof was, that for the time to come, there should be choice made, of valiant and industrious youths, out of the children of the unbelievers, fit for the service, whom they should likewise innoblize, by the faith of Islam; which being a means to make them rich and religious, might be also a way to subdue the strongholds of the unbelievers.’[1]

Under the scheme, non-Muslim children, mainly Christian, were “culled” from Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Georgia, Macedonia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Armenia and Albania that had come under the Ottoman rule. On a fixed date, non-Muslim fathers (mostly Christian) were to bring their children to a designated public square. The Muslim recruiting agents used to choose the healthy, strong and handsome ones of them. After Sultan Mehmet II conquered Constantinople in 1453, Dewshirme received a boost as notes Stephen O’Shea: ‘…following the conquest, Fatih (the Conqueror) expanded the heartless devshirme or ‘gathering’ system, whereby young Christians were abducted and moved to the capital… Once every few years roving Ottoman talent scouts, accompanied by soldiers, descended on the villages… and culled the most promising peasant boys from their playmates and siblings.’[2] The number of children collected as part of Dewshirme varies: ‘Some scholars place it as high as 12,000 a year, others at 8,000…’[3]

These lots of the best of Christian, Jewish and Gypsy children were circumcised and converted to Islam, and were indoctrinated with the ideology of Jihad from this impressionable early age. They were meticulously trained solely for Jihadiwarfareand served in a special unit of the Ottoman army, the Janissary Regiment. Barred from marriage and confined to their barracks, the Janissary soldiers single-mindedly focused on becoming deadly soldiers for waging Jihad against the infidels, their coreligionists of the yesteryear.

The policy proved a boon for the Ottomans. Muslim rulers had remained frustrated in their repeated failures to capture Constantinople—the greatest centre of Christianity, since the time of Caliph Mu’awiyah (d. 680). In their many early attempts to capture Constantinople, they often suffered disastrous reverses

Finally, the Janissaries launched a devastating assault on Constantinople in 1453 and overran it, winning the greatest prize for Islam.

So it was slaves who won the day, for their Muslim slave masters,how Islamic of them.(video)

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  • Public Discussion (27)
kpr37

I hear the questioning of the legitimacy of Israel coming from Turkey,history is not forgotten.............................................. Recep Tayyip Erdoğan, the word is hypocrisy

kemal mustafa Atatturk abolished the Caliphate,there is no bigger insult than to call a Muslim a Jew. It is a crime in Turkey, still to this day to read or posses the article. linked below

http://www.politicalforum.com/history-past-politicians/35993-dictator-mustafa-kemal-ataturk-jewish-here-proof.html

  • 4 votes
#1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 12:51 AM EST
Jalmeno

Stop the illegal occupation of Turkey!!

  • 7 votes
#1.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:07 AM EST
kpr37

Stop the illegal occupation of Turkey!!

If you dig up the ground in Turkey, you find Greek artifacts.

If you dig up the ground in Israel, you find Jewish artifacts.

Who is illegitimate ? Who is not (LOL)

  • 7 votes
#1.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:13 AM EST
Jalmeno

If you dig up the ground in Israel, you find Jewish artifacts.

If you look in the storage basement at the Vatican, you also find Jewish artifacts.

Please forgive my digression...

  • 5 votes
#1.3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:22 AM EST
kpr37

If you look in the storage basement at the Vatican, you also find Jewish artifacts.

true,I say give them to Israel,it is their cultural heritage.

  • 6 votes
#1.4 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:34 AM EST
krishna-167929

kemal mustafa Atatturk abolished the Caliphate,there is no bigger insult than to call a Muslim a Jew. It is a crime in Turkey, still to this day to read or posses the article. linked below

http://www.politicalforum.com/history-past-politicians/35993-dictator-mustafa-kemal-ataturk-jewish-here-proof.html

Wow-- that is pretty shocking!

  • 5 votes
#1.5 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 1:08 PM EST
Goes

krishna-167929

Interesting link, but the account holding the video the first post is associated with was terminated from YouTube.

  • 5 votes
#1.6 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 1:16 PM EST
krishna-167929

Whenever an acct on YouTube is terminated-- it is often a good idea to google the title. Often you can then find it is seeded by someone else on YouTube. Or sometimes on another video site such as LiveLeak or Vimeo.

I don't have time to check into all these now, but I did google the title-- and here are the results. Note the phrase I typed in the google search box near the top of the page. (Perhaps one of these is the same video?)

  • 6 votes
#1.7 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 1:25 PM EST
kpr37

His ideas are difficult to question. Such as secularism is Superior to theocracy and the military need to protect the idea from theocracy.

it's easier to discredit the man,using bigotry and ethnic stereotyping as can be seen here.

Masonic Dictator Mustafa Kemal was Jewish

Source: The Literary Digest (a news journal published in USA)

October 14, 1922, page: 50

A Spanish Jew by ancestry, an orthodox Moslem by birth and breeding, trained in a German war college, a patriot, a student of the campaigns of the world's great generals, including Napoleon, Grant and Lee - these are said to be a few outstanding characteristics in the personality of the new "Man on Horseback" who has appeared in the Near East. He is a real dictator, the correspondents testify, a man of the type which is at once the hope and fear of nations torn to pieces by unsuccessful wars. Unity and power have come back to Turkey largely through the will of Mustafa Kemal Pasha.

...

There was the pasha himself, tall, still young, good-looking, narrow-hipped, wide-shouldered, with gray, rather sad eyes that spoke eloquently of his Spanish-Jewish ancestry- for Kemal, like Enver Pasha, tho an orthodox Moslem, is descended from those Spanish-Jewish families that, given by Christianity the tolerant choice between death, conversion and exile, found asylum and happiness in the Sultan's domains - and with strong, high-veined hands, broad and flat across the wrist - the hands of an artist, a dreamer, yet, too, those of a doer, a man who knows how to clout his dreams into facts.

http://m-kemal.blogspot.com

Kemal Mustafa Atatturk was no more Jewish than you or I. (LOL)

Go to any blog or news site in Turkey,there is no mention of this.but this "Zionist" conspiracy,can be found well sourced it many other places.

Hitler's Mein Kampf (jihad in Arabic) was a resent best seller in Turkey. But not this ?

if Recep Tayyip Erdogan,frees the "press" it will be interesting to read about this in Turkish news sources.

If a Jew ( secrete Zionist) abolished the caliphate, it would be only proper, if a good and believing Muslim (mr Erdogan ? ) were to reinstate it ?

  • 5 votes
#1.8 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 1:30 PM EST
Goes

krishna-167929, Thank you, I didn't mean to ask you to search for the video, thank you though, I will follow your advice.

  • 5 votes
#1.9 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 1:32 PM EST
krishna-167929

No problem.

I just did it to provide an example of how (sometimes) when you find a video on YouTube and the acct on YouTube is closed-- by googling the title (or a few key words) you can often find the same video elsewhere. This is a very useful thing to know.

  • 6 votes
#1.10 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 1:36 PM EST
Goes

Yes it is:)

  • 3 votes
#1.11 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 1:37 PM EST
kpr37

Kemal Mustafa Atatturk, enemy of Islam http://youtu.be/V0FlsGMMDiQ from your link krishna

  • 4 votes
#1.12 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 1:45 PM EST
krishna-167929

If you dig up the ground in Turkey, you find Greek artifacts. If you dig up the ground in Israel, you find Jewish artifacts. Who is illegitimate ? Who is not (LOL)

Now that's an interesting point (really something to think about...)

  • 7 votes
#1.13 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 2:02 PM EST
kpr37

http://www.friesian.com/turkia.htm an interesting link

  • 2 votes
#1.14 - Sun Jan 1, 2012 11:01 AM EST
kpr37

A brief history of the life and policies of one of the most vehement enemies of Islam, Mustafa Kemal Ataturk was the founder of the secular Turkish state. It is an unfortunate thing that a lot of his policies are still being practiced in Turkey till this day. Women are still not allowed to wear the hijab in Government buildings and schools a[s it is seen to be a sign of fundamentalism

http://www.bismikaallahuma.org/archives/2005/mustafa-kemal-ataturk-the-enemy-of-islam/

  • 1 vote
#1.15 - Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:20 AM EST
kpr37

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/fighting_words/2010/04/shut_up_about_armenians_or_well_hurt_them_again.html

  • 3 votes
#1.16 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:55 AM EST
kpr37

April is the cruelest month for the people of Armenia, who every year at this season have to suffer a continuing tragedy and a humiliation. The tragedy is that of commemorating the huge number of their ancestors who were exterminated by the Ottoman Muslim caliphate in a campaign of state-planned mass murder that began in April 1915. The humiliation is of hearing, year after year, that the Turkish authorities simply deny that these appalling events ever occurred or that the killings constituted "genocide."

In a technical and pedantic sense, the word genocide does not, in fact, apply, since it only entered our vocabulary in 1943. (It was coined by a scholar named Raphael Lemkin, who for rather self-evident reasons in that even more awful year wanted a legal term for the intersection between racism and bloodlust and saw Armenia as the precedent for what was then happening in Poland.) I still rather prefer the phrase used by America's then-ambassador to Turkey, Henry Morgenthau. Reporting to Washington about what his consular agents were telling him of the foul doings in the Ottoman provinces of Harput and Van in particular, he employed the striking words "race extermination." (See the imperishable book The Slaughterhouse Province for some of the cold diplomatic dispatches of that period.) Terrible enough in itself, Morgenthau's expression did not quite comprehend the later erasure of all traces of Armenian life, from the destruction of their churches and libraries and institutes to the crude altering of official Turkish maps and schoolbooks to deny that there had ever been an Armenia in the first place.

  • 3 votes
#1.17 - Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:59 AM EST
kpr37

Without urgent, comprehensive intervention, Turkey’s remaining Greek population may disappear in the next few decades. They number around 1,700 today, down from estimates around 1.8 million at the start of the 20th century – more than a 99 percent reduction over 112 years.

.......................................................................................................

THE ROAD TO 1,700

It wasn’t always this way. Ethnic Greeks once thrived in the region. They have lived in what is now Turkey since antiquity, long before Alexander the Great captured Asia Minor from the Persians around 300 B.C. Anatolia, the peninsula that makes up most of modern-day Turkey, was the birthplace of such ancient Greek titans as Homer and Saint Nicholas. Scholars and philosophers like Pythagorus and Aristotle wandered Anatolia’s lands throughout their lives.

The Greeks of Asia Minor have seen the rise and fall of two empires, Byzantine and Ottoman. Today, their future is not guaranteed. Punitive government policies targeting religious minorities – such as crippling taxes on their wealth, laws making it nearly impossible for them to buy or sell property, and lack of state funding for their schools and services – have all but stamped them out, threatening to end a continuous, unbroken chapter of Greek history in the region spanning two millennia.

Despite present demographic realities, many of Turkey’s Greeks refuse to believe this is the end of the road. Instead, they press on, instilling religious and cultural traditions in the next generation without acknowledging the possibility of defeat. In an interview last spring, Valantis’ principal and teacher Hristo Pestemalcioglu swung between hope and resignation, unsure what his sole pupil’s looming graduation or transfer might mean.

“What could happen to our school next year? I don’t know,” he said. He did not know of any ethnic Greek children in the Kadıköy area other than Valantis. “If there are children they are welcome here. If there aren’t any children…we don’t know what will happen.”

http://kpr37.newsvine.com/_news/2012/05/17/11744876-special-report-the-greeks-of-turkey-is-it-too-late

And people still claim it's Israel who is "cleansing" it's minority population.

On February 9, 2008, Luay Shabaneh, the new president of the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS), published the results of a December 2007 Palestinian Authority population census. According to the new data, since 1997, the Arab population has increased to 1,460,000 in the Gaza Strip and 2,300,000 in the West Bank (including 208,000 in East Jerusalem) to a total of 3,760,000 people—an increase of 30 percent in one decade.

http://islamonfocus.blogspot.com/2009/04/politics-of-palestinian-demography.html

    #1.18 - Thu May 17, 2012 11:30 AM EDT
    Reply
    US Citizen-658112

    People and nations being free start at the end of a barrel of a firearm......without which the powerful rule and write history and with those that wish for freedom and and recognition take that from those that would prevent it.....

    Where do I go to get my Uzi? Or is it just a matter or providing a destination and waiting for one to arrive?

    • 1 vote
    Reply#2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 1:13 AM EST
    kpr37

    Where do I go to get my Uzi?

    the gun store, after a 30 day waiting period and background check

    • 2 votes
    #2.1 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:02 AM EST
    US Citizen-658112

    Seriously, in the USA, if you could even find an actual select-fire Uzi, it would be a $200 tax stamp, a long wait while everyone from the local sheriff to the FBI checked me out, and then if all came through with an approval many thousands of dollars in the final transaction for the weapon.

    I was musing what it must be like to be "in the line" within the State of Israel and facing down opponents out to wipe out the nation.....and the military symbol of that resolve to me is an Uzi in the case of Israel.

    Thank you for your very level-headed response to my earlier post.

    • 2 votes
    #2.2 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:16 AM EST
    Reply
    kpr37

    With nearly a thousand women murdered in Turkey in 2009 according to new data from the Justice Ministry, the country has witnessed a drastic increase since 66 women were murdered in 2002. ‘The reason behind violence against women is the imbalance of power in society,’ an activist says



    Ayşe Paşalı (R), who was allegedly shot to death by her ex-husband, unsuccessfully sought official protection due to her husband's alleged physical abuse and threats to kill her.

    http://archive.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=women-murder-victims-increase-snowballing-in-turkey-2011-02-20

    The number of women murdered in a year in Turkey shot up 1,400 percent between 2002 and 2009, according to data recently revealed by the country’s justice minister.

    • 3 votes
    Reply#3 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 2:00 AM EST
    kpr37

    I forgot to add this link here

    the Arabs who invented this ideology and codified it in the Quran and hadith

    http://youtu.be/AKl0gA35HaE history of the Quran,just like the history of the Turkic people.books have a history as well, no matter what some may say.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#4 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 10:07 AM EST
    kpr37Deleted
    Goes

    Kpr, Thank you for the very well written article, and for the obvious amount of time and effort you exerted in it.

    • 4 votes
    Reply#6 - Tue Dec 6, 2011 12:59 PM EST
    kpr37

    the obvious amount of time and effort you exerted in it.

    I found this while doing research,but could not fit it in.You might find it interesting.

    The Quran that we have today is compiled during the Caliphate of Othman. Othman started his Caliphate in 644 C.E. By that time the two wars between the Persians and the Romans were over and the victors in each case had already been known. What are the chances that the verses 2-4 of Sura 30 that says first the Romans will be defeated and a few years later they will become victorious were altered because the original verses pronounced by Muhammad were wrong?

    Of course if what Muhammad had said had been wrong, Othman would not have allowed it to be published, which would have shown Muhammad to be a false prophet. These verses would have been adjusted to reflect what had actually happened.

    Othman ordered all other versions that did not match his, to be destroyed. Why? It is because they contradicted the one he had put together. As the result the evidence is lost. We can’t prove that Muhammad was wrong and Muslims can’t claim these verses as prophecy. It is absolutely illogical that the compilers would have kept the original verses when the history had proven Muhammad a false prophet.

    http://alisina.org/muhammads-prophecy-of-romans-victory/

    • 4 votes
    #6.1 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 9:41 AM EST
    Goes

    And Muslims claim the Qur'an to be the untempered with one, which Allah preserved despite of not preserving the previous two. What a logic?!

    I had a long discussion with a Muslim under the title of the preserved word of Allah, and I believe you were commenting there too.

    • 4 votes
    #6.2 - Wed Dec 7, 2011 11:05 AM EST
    Reply
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